COR Rules & Meeting

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COR complies with the APBA General Racing & Safety Rules unless more restrictive rules are provided in the most current COR rules.

Download the Official 2012 APBA COR Rules
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Download the COR Protest Update

Capnzee88's picture

We will be looking towards a meeting of the COR membership sometime after the September race. I was thinking of meeting somewhere centered in Region 12. Palm Springs comes to mind. Prior to the meeting, Robert's Rules dictates that we have a prepared agenda. I have asked Mike Q to collect your thoughts on a date and an agenda. I picked the Palm Springs area as being more centralized and a place the family members might enjoy. I believe the rules concerning the engines and boats should be fairly solid. We are reaching or are very close to our "target" speeds during closed course racing. Speeds on long courses such as the Enduro are not COR speeds as this is not a COR race. We have a commitment to APBA with regard to our speeds and to date have been very successful in keeping this commitment. I am not encouraging any speed enhancing rule changes to be brought forward on the agenda. Rod Zapf, COR Chairman

Capnzee88's picture

There have been rumors in the past concerning protests and where the money goes in the event of a protest. Since we have boats running in Region 11 in the next few weeks I called the Region 11 Chairman, Bill Boyes and asked him how they would handle the money in the case of a protest. He referred me back to the COR Rule 3.A.9. This rule states that a 100 dollar fee must accompany the protest and must be made within 30 minutes of the final race. This rule does not state where or to whom the protest money is awarded. We contacted the Special Events Chairman, Dutch Squires and he interpreted the rule for Special Events class concerning protest money. If a protest is made within the COR rules as to time money etc; the inspector is required to inspect the engine for the specific item being protested and at his discretion may make a complete inspection of all COR rules applicable. If the inspector finds the challenged engine/boat to be legal, the money is given to the person that was protested to assist in the rebuild or whatever. However, If the boat/motor protested is found to be illegal, in any way, during the inspection process, the boat/motor shall be declared illegal and the money will be returned to the person who initiated the protest. This is a ruling by the Special Events Chairman and shall be incorporated immediately as a interpretation of a present rule. It is not a rule change and is effective in all APBA regions. Rod Zapf, COR Chairman

WALTHOLLIS's picture

Rod,

I hope you welcome my comments even though I am a COR sideline observer these days. One thing I would like to add is that the tech inspection process started to gain traction, and was a good thing in my opinion. There was much talk about it and the level of confidence that everyone was on the same page from a tech standpoint started to build. That seemed to drop off in the last three or so races because tech became non-existent, and in some cases the weigh in wasnt done. Much of this had to do with logistics (ie Folsom) and the availability of Mickey at the races, but I think its something that would need to revisited in the coming season so that it can be more consistent. The presence of tech comforts the new guys coming in that they can be in the game knowing that the guy next to him has the same equipment.

- Walt

007's picture

The objective is to discuss and agree on a number of important items (once a year) for the upcoming 2014 racing season (which starts in November 2013).

As with the APBA, 2/3 vote would be needed to approve new items or changes.

All interested COR drivers and owners are welcomed to attend but only wet boat owners that raced in at least one 2013 event are all eligible to vote.

Here is the proposed agenda for our annual COR class meeting:
1) Race formats, starts, regions
2) Scoring, points, trophies
3) APBA safety rules, overlap rule
4) 18' 6" Rule
5) COR class promotion: fund raising, new members, social events, sponsors, website (elect officials for each)

Please feel free to comment on the agenda as this is just a first draft.

JJ_Gibbs's picture

Since that's on the agenda I would like to add a proposal to change the cockpit size rule. It doesn't make any sense that we can run a River Rocket STV but NOT an ex Mod VP boat like Franky and I ran at the enduro 2 years ago. They are the same exact boat and there are some smoking deals on them to be had on them. Just as long as there isn't a capsule or any part of the boat over a drivers helmet.

WALTHOLLIS's picture

Mike, not sure if have considered corporate sponsorship of the winners purse in exchange for some promotion. Its the way it was done when I raced bikes. Each class had a corporate sponsor. If a company donated $500 ($300 first, $150 second, $50 third) for the main event on sunday, and got some name dropping of the company over the pa and in the print materials, ie medicalplanquotes.com, then to me as a business owner $500 isnt much to spend.

- Walt

JJ_Gibbs's picture

Agenda looks good so far Mike and I like Walt's suggestion. Will we ever be voting for COR officials or are those just self appointed positions (IE: Chairman/Secretary/Treasurer/etc?).

Capnzee88's picture

The position of COR chairman is appointed by the Special Event Chairman, in this case Dutch Squires. We have never had any money to consider appointing a Treasurer. Mike Q, was asked by myself to set up the web-site. He has done a masterful job and has more or less acted as secretary though we have actually had no meetings since the rules were frozen. Rod

JJ_Gibbs's picture

I am sure a set series of races for points would be discussed and covered under scoring??

STV_Keith's picture

I agree and think this should be the case as well. Races for the 2014 season that will award COR points should be set at the beginning of the year (before Nov 1) and COR points should only be awarded at those races.

I do think that the COR class should be allowed to add a race that will award COR points, as long as every owner that has had a boat in the water in 2014 agrees to add it.

Keith-

Capnzee88's picture

I have been asked to add discussion as to a clarification or change to the overlap rule as an agenda item in the upcoming meeting. Michael will please add this to the final agenda items. In the mean time interested members may re-read the COR rules concerning the overlap rule and further their knowledge by reading the APBA GENERAL RULES as well as the category rules such as inboard, outboard, OPC, stock outboard to give them some idea as to what is generally accepted in APBA racing. An example might be with a boat running well behind but gaining rapidly on the lead boat--how would the lead boat know when any of the boats is within 3 lengths? Just a thought by myself to stir your thought process as to how you establish an overlap? or if you are the lead boat? What does the current rule say? but it also says??? Rod

007's picture

Thanks for the input... Walt, that is exactly what I was thinking. We could offer a class sponsor decals on boats, shirts, prize money, pa mentions, website banners, etc. And we could definitely actively promote our sponsors. JJ, yes we need to make sure all know how to earn points, make it accessible and fair as other regions start to hold races. Rod, overlap rule noted and added.

WALTHOLLIS's picture

FYI - The way it is set up in 45's............passing on the inside, if the overtaking boat canopy is even with the canopy of the boat being overtaken, then the overtaking boat has the lane. When passing on the outside, the overtaking boat has the lane when the overlap is large enough to allow taking the lane without contact.

STV_Keith's picture

Walt, I'd suggest that the rules for a 45 probably aren't good enough for us. The COR boats are 2x as heavy, with no closed cockpit or safety cell. I liked the rules from the enduro as to a 3 boat length lead before moving over. We can discuss at the meeting.

Keith-

WALTHOLLIS's picture

Agreed............the 45 rule for passing on the inside is pretty straightforward, but for COR there definately needs to be some more specific details for the outside passing rule. I have come to learn that the general rule of thumb in 45's is if the boat will fit in the space needed then make the pass, and although not condoned on paper, a little "rubbin is racing" is not frowned upon as long as bondo and fiberglass matting isnt needed afterwards.

Capnzee88's picture

Keith, I believe you are wrong as far as the Enduro rule is concerned. The Enduro rule speaks of a "red zone" being 100 feet in front, 100 feet in back and 10 feet on either side of a boat It further states that no boat may enter the red zone of another boat. This rule was written specifically for the faster boats that are overtaking the slower boats on the long straight-a-ways. The COR rules speak of 3 boat lengths of separation to change lanes once an over lap condition has been established. To establish an overlap, there must be a cockpit to cockpit "meeting" after which the 3 boat length rule comes into play. Until the overlap has been established, the passing boat must remain clear of the boat being passed. The overlap condition can be established on either side of the lead boat. This may seem rather "clumsy" but I don't know how else it can be worded. Perhaps you can give it some thought. It is certainly a worthy topic for the upcoming meeting. Rod

STV_Keith's picture

What I meant by the Enduro rule is that no overlap needs to exist to call out a 3-boat length rule. I think the rule should state:

"3-boat lengths are required to change lanes, move over on, or move in front of another boat (whether in a corner or on the straight)."

This does not require an overlap to have existed. Don't know if a boat is there? LOOK or don't move over.

Keith-

Capnzee88's picture

Can you turn your head far enough around to see if a boat is coming up on your hip, hiding under your rooster tail? Maybe, but I doubt it. As I said, maybe.

STV_Keith's picture

Hiding under a rooster tail? If I can see you, you should be able to see me.

Image: 

Keith-

JJ_Gibbs's picture

Rod knows exactly when he is chopping somebody off as does anybody else!! You are arguing a point to somebody who won't listen unless it comes from his great mind. I honestly don't think a rule change is going to keep some people from driving the way they do and in the heat of a race isn't going to matter.

STV_Keith's picture

I believe the rule will help with SAFETY of the racers on the course. As long as it is enforced, racers will be required to know where everyone is around them in order to avoid penalties.

Keith-

Propman's picture

If you weren't at Long Beach maybe you wouldn't believe it, but Greg B got called for a lap penality for cutting Keith off in the corner. I think this is the first lane infraction penality I have seen in the COR class, not only that but Emilio gets a call for improper lane change at the start of the same heat. The engine cam shows a near miss with Keith, and Emilio trading paint with Greg R. Of course, there were more penalties that could have been called, but I was encouraged that this was a start. As far as racers knowing who is around them, I believe that you should look before you change lanes. If you don't look, and you cut someone off or cause a crash then you should be called for barring way. You might say "I didn't see em" but I would reply that you timed it pretty good for not knowing where he was. From a self preservation standpoint it might be a good idea to drive like anyone in front of you doesn't know you're there, it might be an even better idea to drive in lane one down the straight away ,if that lane is available, and stay in lane one in the corner until you exit the corner. It is the shortest and fastest way around the course. Driveing lane three in the straight and cutting through lane one in the turns is begging for a collision.

DaBull's picture

In COR what is the rule on overlap? It use to say that if you are in the outside lane and overtaking a boat you must have two boat lengths before you can take a lane from a guy.
Also the definition for a forced overlap states that if you are on the inside of another boat and closing you must be even with that boat before the lane can be considered yours and if you are not even then you must yeild to the outside boat.

Propman's picture

The way the current rule is written, a passing boat has to have his cockpit even with the boat being passed before the boat being passed has to maintain his lane. Or in other words, wait until the passing boat's bow is even with your motor, then move over.......still a legal maneuver....can't we come up with better(safer) rule than that??? I think we might also consider a "move over" flag for boats being lapped. The sportsman-like thing to do would be to move over if you know you are being lapped--don't think that's a good idea? Just wait until you are leading the race, and are comming up on lapped traffic, then you'll think this is a wonderful Idea. Barring that, pick a lane and stay in it.

Let's not have a "cockpit to cockpit" meeting by accident.

Capnzee88's picture

The APBA general safety rules address the "tracking" issue of the lead boat (boat being overtaken). I have gone through the rules of all of the categories governing the overlap rule and have not been able to find an answer among them. Boats being lapped are generally expected to move to the outside as a courtesy however I know of no rule that requires them to do so. This is certainly a rule that could be incorporated in future rule making.

STV_Keith's picture

I think we need to implement our own rule. If the guy in front of me can just saw me off because I haven't got even with him, that's a recipe for disaster. If one boat moves over in front of another even 1-2 boat lengths ahead, that could cause a blow over.

Let's take a look at the video below. This was recorded from Emilios boat in Heat 3 at Lake Ming. At the start, look at the line Johnny takes going into turn 1. He comes from way outside and does an apexing maneuver. At about 24 seconds, Emilio starts looking to his right as Johnny is coming in. We see Johnny enter the frame of video at about a 45* angle. Emilio lets out of the throttle to avoid contact.

Look again at 55 seconds and see where Johnny and Rod nearly have contact. As Emilio comes around behind them, look at the wakes and how they came together. Maybe this is a good case for the "maintain your line in a corner if other boats are present" rule.

Finally, at 1:50 in the video, Rod comes over on Emilio, who turns into Belda's spray to avoid collision.

Drivers have to LOOK around and know who is around them.

http://youtu.be/hc3VblAnOUI

Keith-

flying finn's picture

Please put on the agenda the annual election for the COR chairman in the coming season/year. Also discussion on the COR representative for races.

Capnzee88's picture

As of today I have indicated to Dutch Squires my desire to "retire" as COR Chairman. I have appointed Mike Q as intermediate COR Chairman. Dutch Squires or the APBA Special Events Chairman is the only person with the authority to appoint a COR Chairman. He may or may not choose to take recommendations from the COR membership.
I believe that the newly appointed COR Chairman should be the person to call the 2014 rules meeting as he/she is the one who will have to "live" with the changes that are made at the meeting.
Therefore, I thank all of you for working with me over the past few years. The COR class has gained popularity and numbers. It is one of the only classes in APBA to obtain this status. May the class continue to succeed and grow in APBA.
Looking forward to seeing you all at Salt Springs. Perhaps Mike would hold a short meeting to ensure the continuity of the class until the new permanent Chairman is appointed. It has been a pleasure,
Sincerely Yours,
Rod Zapf

007's picture

I received a call from Rod and then later Dutch this morning updating me on Rod’s retirement from the position. It is disappointing to see Rod go as he is the one who built this class and stuck with it through both the successes and growing pains. He has deep knowledge of boat racing and the rules of APBA which are needed to keep the competition safe, affordable, and fair. Thank you Rod for all you have done and we know you are only a phone call (or boat length away).

It is not an easy role to assume, but I have agreed to help bring us together for our annual meeting. At that time, Dutch has agreed to accept a new COR Class Chairman by vote of the active members of the COR class. I suggest we conduct this vote at the annual meeting, where all relevant nominations will be welcomed.

While we are still waiting to confirm a time and place, your input is welcomed. Right now my thought is to do this where most convenient for all (as suggested by Rod), in conjunction with the annual APBA Region 12 meeting for which a time and place has not yet been set, or maybe somewhere we can launch our boats.

007's picture

I am planning our annual meeting to be held in conjunction with the APBA Region 12 annual meeting. This seems to make most sense so others can also attend and support Region 12 activities at the same time. And usually they have a good bbq!

Once the date and location for the Region 12 meeting are announced, we can firm up our meeting logistics.

At this year's meeting, I would like to accomplish two objectives.... (Others are certainly welcome to comment or add ideas) 1) make sure all voices are heard and we come together with well thought out plans/benefits for any proposed changes for 2014. 2) Elect our officials for 2014 including COR Chairman and other roles we decide to appoint.

I believe we all know most of the important issues on the table as most have been highlighted in our conversations and on this forum.

It will be most productive if those with a case for change come prepared knowing the current rules, history, and with details around your proposals and the implementation of the same so that others can respond accordingly.

Once we have merged our ideas into actions that make sense for the future of COR we can vote. I want to make sure we capture all votes whether in attendance or not.

My thought is capture the vote of those in attendance but if any items are close or could be changed by the outstanding vote count, we table the change until the full group has a chance to weight in.

Please feel free to post any additional comments on this thread in preparation for the meeting.

STV_Keith's picture

Any other racers out there tired of this old skool, outdated carburetor stuff? How about making EFI legal. Horn from a 2.5 with an ECU and injectors. We just scratched yet ANOTHER motor thanks to this archaic carb stuff. Just tired of working with these finicky things. The EFI is so simple.

Keith-

JJ_Gibbs's picture

I highly doubt the majority will vote for that and the idea will get crushed just like the o-ring heads did. I think it's a great idea to move forward with new technology but I don't think the majority of the class will be for the change because it will cost them money. Sooner or later with the availability getting slimmer of this older carb/2.0 stuff/good heads some sort of changes to the motor rules and specs is going to have to be brought forward. Hopefully by someone that actually understands outboards.

STV_Keith's picture

JJ, do you think there would be a noticeable performance increase by going from the carbs we are limited to, over to EFI horn style injection? Fuel delivery is fuel delivery...I just think the EFI is much more reliable. Easy to adjust too...just need a flat blade screwdriver on the adjustment pot.

I'm not saying we mandate to run EFI, just give it as an option instead of the carbs.

The 2.5's horn is 3-3/8" inlet, so I'm not sure how that would affect total airflow into the motor compared to the carbs we have to run.

Keith-

007's picture

I would start with the biggest jets Mercury makes and then go down until it the motor starts running right. Look for wash on the pistons by the intake ports. No wash, no good. Fatten up the main jets without delay. Black carbon on the piston tops looks ok but it actually means the motor is running to lean. Grab a pencil light and look through the spark plug hole after your first run at WOT. If you read the piston tops after idling, all bets are off as that will only tell you if you idle jets are fat and mostly they are.

JJ_Gibbs's picture

Mike has some good input on starting with jetting a new motor. Personally I normally start in the .096-.099 range for main jet size. You do have to be careful and make sure to always be checking the tops of the pistons with a light or pulling cylinder heads (that's where O-ring heads become very useful). No need to change head gaskets as the O-rings are reusable. As far as EFI making more power VS. 3 carbs with a 2.0 in the configuration most if us run I think it would be a good experiment. There's no doubt it would make more power with a behind the liner motor, but we can't run that. I really think it would help the class grow and keep the boats separated a little if we were able to be ingenuitive and come up with some different motor configurations. Motor wise I would say the entire class is pretty close other than maybe a couple guys having just a little bit more motor than the rest. We could always make a notion have it on the annual meeting agenda. P.S. EFI parts are getting easier to come by than all this old carb stuff

STV_Keith's picture

Exactly my point on the EFI stuff JJ. Really easy to find analog or digital EFI stuff these days. More money than carbs, but a lot easier too, IMO.

Keith-

05's picture

We all need new technology, we need to run OptiMax 200XS ROS
to be able to bring MERCURY in to racing in the US like in australia and Europe, it will take more $$$ but at the end will be the best for the sport, at this point no one is or will be looking on our direction for as long as we keep running obsolete yonke that will be banned from the lakes in the near future.

007's picture

All interesting ideas. All rule suggestions and discussion are welcomed. Our end deliverable from the meeting will need to be approved by the APBA and it will have to make sense with them... they are (and therefore we should be) focused on three themes: safety, target speed around 80 mph, and low cost of entry. The more thought out the ideas are and in context with this mission, the more progress we can make.

franky's picture

How about another class where the only rule was 2.0 liter displacement.

DaBull's picture

One of the biggest thing that destroyed Mod-VP was constant rules changes. Ya`ll have a good thing going. It`s cheap, competitive and fun to watch.

007's picture

Too true. Good advice.

JJ_Gibbs's picture

No way that vote would ever go through or APBA would allow it. A good unlimited 2.0 would make close to 300 HP.......then it would be capsules and the ultimate demise of the class.

05's picture

150 PRO XS ! It will do the trick.

JJ_Gibbs's picture

They are great idea Emilio but that really blows the whole low cost entry right out the door. Most guys won't or cant afford $12000-$18000 for a new engine from Mother Mercury. APBA already has a class that runs the new 150 green motors with capsule STV/Mirage/Quartershot. Even if you were to spend the money and have somebody build you a top of the line COR powerhead put it on a 15" race offshore mid section with a sportmaster, with some shopping you will still be in that less than one of the XS series motors.

DaBull's picture

BRAVO JJ Gibbs, You said a large mouthfull with your last two post`s. When ya`ll go to the rules meeting just remember what they did to wreck Mod-VP. Special motors (differant every year depending on what Mercury said was stock) boats that at one time you would see on our lakes and rivers but now look like full out decked over champ boats and you needed a large budget to afford it all.

007's picture

COR Owners and Drivers,

I have been in conversations with the APBA around tracking our points. As you may be aware, this it typically not a service they provide to Special Event classes.

One of the main reasons is that most categories have different scoring and the calculations become quite complex and too far outside of the system capabilities (without additional programing) of the APBA scoring.

The good news is that the APBA has agreed to work with the COR class on figuring out a solution.

"APBA may be willing to keep track of the COR points of they can conform to something that is already programmed. They may be willing to set up a program if you can’t conform but the programming costs would be at your members expense. FYI - The existing categories are required to pay for any changes they make in their current programs also."

Whats does this mean to COR? Well, we would have to agree to use the APBA points system (Rule 21 in the APBA General Safety Rules... found on this site and the APBA site). We would only be able to track points on drivers. Boat numbers would not be allowed to overlap... only 09 or 9 would be allowed. Obviously, Emelio would own 04 +4, 05+5 since he has been on the water with these numbers.

What I need from you? If you are supportive, I will continue to work to make this happen for 2014. I would like it if you would provide constructive comments to either advance or kill this idea.

JJ_Gibbs's picture

Mike I think this is a step in the right direction to gaining some national attention from APBA. Bottom line is if the class is ever going to grow beyond region 11/12 and become a national class we are going to have to follow APBA's points system.

flying finn's picture

I agree with getting in step with APBA and becoming a real class like everone else.

Propman's picture

I would like to use apba points--certainly our officials won't need direction when something unusual comes up. Seems like our points rule will hinge on this. The downside is we will have to accept a national points system, I would accept this if we were a national class and not a special event class. That is a good idea, something we as a group should pursue. I am reminded of last Thanksgiving when Ross and his crew awarded Mike first at the awards banquit, and later reversed the award and gave Keith first. The mixup was blamed on a printer problem. It would be a good idea to keep track of the score on our own.

007's picture

Thanks all for your comments and input on this board and via email. I am in the process of creating a draft "rule book" based on your input and based on standardizing around the safety and racing rules created by APBA.

My intent is to create some more objectivity around rule making (leaving more of it the APBA) and make it easier for our officials to work with our class.

I am also working toward making COR a National class within Special Events. Since we already race in two regions, I am hopefully we can get the recognition that you all deserve.

Our objectives remain the same as layed out by our founder: safety, low cost of ownership, speeds in the low 80 mph range. The technical rules remain the same.

I will send a draft for you all to review via email to the wet boat owners to review in the next few days. The draft is consolidated document that includes the applicable APBA General Racing Rules with (COR) category input where called for by the APBA. Please send any other comments now if you would like them included in our first draft.

We will continue to work on the draft ahead of our annual meeting, so can all collaborate (and vote) on our future success in a productive manner once we get together.

We have a great class going, and I would like to see it expand unlike others classes that might be struggling. This can’t just be about us, but about welcoming in others to join because they see this is class built around our COR objectives and they see us proving integrity and transparency in our process.

Actually, I don't see us changing many things at all. Most of this is about clarity around racing rules and safety. Please feel free ot give me a call if this does not make sense.

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